The TIF roadshows roll back into the City of Salford next week. We’ve already had exhibitions in Salford (two days at Regent Retail Park) and Swinton (at Morrisons) and next Tuesday (9th September) the roadshow alights at Morrisons in Eccles for the afternoon. There are further exhibitions planned for Walkden (25th September) and the University of Salford (1st October).
So why have residents in Irlam and Cadishead been left out? That’s just not good enough.
Iain,
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1066233_call_to_move_ccharge_boundary
Any chance of getting the boundary moved for the people of Irlam and Cadishead?
Adam
You’d think Oldham Council would have noticed these problems earlier, especially as they were enthusiastic supporters of the bid…
I take that as a no.
As you are aware Adam I don’t think the boundary should be there at all. It will have a terrible impact on local residents who are just “across the border”, including those in Irlam and Cadishead, which is why I shall be voting “no” in the poll in December.
Iain,
Instead of ensuring certain measures are put in place that would be for the benefit of the people of Irlam and Cadishead (and will lesson that “terrible impact”) if Greater Manchester votes yes, you are simply going to ignore the issue until it is too late because you do not agree with the policy put forward.
Nice to know your approach to politics.
I am sure your conservative colleague in London will be delighted with your vote. £3Billion more for the London Underground – terrific!
I make no apologies for vehemently opposing a deal which offers local residents across the west of Salford nothing but a massive debt above their heads.
I don’t support congestion charging (and I say that as a non-driver), and I certainly don’t support the Labour Government blackmail which has accompanied this process from the outset, but I’ve also always said that if we are going to get £3 billion to invest in public transport then it has to be spent wisely and not squandered. Conservative colleagues have made similar points and we have all been ignored by the Labour leadership of AGMA.
The proposal is on the table now, as far as residents in Irlam, Eccles and Worsley are concerned it falls down at every single level. I will continue to make the points about the lack of improvements in west Salford (indeed I did on Tuesday when I visited the exhibition in Eccles) but this is a bad deal for this area whichever spin you put on it and I will be arguing for a no vote in December.
Adam,..I think it is your approach to politics that is more concerning. If you have read the documentation put out and can see a benifit to the people of Salford other than decades of debt then I would for you to explain your logic.
On a side note if any members of the M.E.N are reading this, please give this debate a level playing field,
Martin,
What Iain and yourself are failing to understand is that we live in a city region. I go on nights out to Manchester, shopping at the Trafford Centre, go to the theatre at the Lowry etc… but all of these, at the moment, are far easier to do in your car. I think we will all agree that our city region will grind to a halt if action is not taken soon to improve public transport. We need a more integrated public transport system sooner rather than later.
If you don’t believe that more buses, improvements to railway stations (including the long neglected Irlam Station), more trains, extra security such as CCTV, real-time passenger information, 120 yellow school buses for our children, metrolink extension etc… are a good thing for Salford then I simply can not agree with you both on this issue. We have been promised that the majority of these improvements must be in place BEFORE congestion charging is allowed to go ahead. It is easy, being that we already have the metrolink, to underplay the other improvements this bid will bring.
I seem to remember Martin that you said you would be in favour of the bid if your local residents were? Have you asked them yet?
Oh and Martin, what is your Notice of Motion for Council? Just wondering if Joe took on my idea?
Adam
Hi Adam,
Some quick comments on your points…
“We need a more integrated public transport system sooner rather than later”
I don’t disagree, but there’s nothing integrated about the TIF proposals around here. The major insfrastructure project West Salford is the Leigh Guided Busway, which does not link up with rail services or current bus provision anywhere between Salford Crescent and Tyldesley.
“more buses”
How are we going to get more buses? All we have is a vague promise of all these extra buses. The TIF proposals for buses were conceived in the hope that the Local Transport Bill (in Parliament at the moment) would give GMPTE the same franchising powers as TfL in London. That isn’t going to happen.
All GMPTE will be able to do is operate a revised version of the current subsidised routes, but on a much larger scale. This gives the bus companies all the aces, as they’ll know that a) the politicians have promised huge improvements in buses and b) they have a big stack of (borrowed) TIF cash. I’d recommend buying shares in Stagecoach and First Bus.
Of course, this also means breaking a golden economic rule (borrow to invest, not for running costs) and that a few years down the line when the TIF cash runs out, all the services will get withdrawn as GMPTE no longer has the money to subsidise them. That day will come sooner than you think, because once you take out all the infrastructure projects and the inevitable cost creep, there certainly won’t be enough money left to run 30 years worth of buses across an entire city region.
“improvements to railway stations (including the long neglected Irlam Station)”
Neglected stations like Irlam (and Walkden) are already on a rolling infrastructure programme… but that programme has been parked while we await a TIF verdict, so TIF might actually mean that residents in Irlam and Cadishead wait longer for their station improvements.
“more trains”
Long overdue, but the money for extra carriages is from a separate funding stream and isn’t part of TIF, whatever the adverts might say.
“extra security such as CCTV, real-time passenger information”
See my comment about Irlam station above. Indeed, stations in Wigan and Bolton have been promised this for some time as part of a “compensation package” for the absence of Metrolink in those boroughs. Even though the money is already there, suddenly those improvements have become part of the TIF bid! One big charade…
“120 yellow school buses for our children”
These are of course very welcome but they won’t go very far. 120 across the whole of Greater Manchester means that (proportionally) Salford will be entitled to about 10. My old school (Walkden High) runs about four buses already, so those 10 buses will be a drop in the ocean. The 10 buses will barely cover the impact of all the extra miles that children will have to cover due to the closures and mergers proposed under Building Schools For The Future.
“metrolink extension”
Salford doesn’t benefit from the Metrolink extension at all. The only additions to the Metrolink in Salford is the spur to MediaCity:UK, and that already has secured funding from the Council, NWDA and Peel.
Adam,
Before I became a Councillor I asked the people, when I became a Councillor I asked the people the whole point of my protestations were that the people were not being consulted.
A referendum…, I stood up in a debate and was told by Cllr Leese the issue is to complex for one? now its not.
Most active debate has been confined to the comments pages or blogs, everyone from Bernstein to Smith wants to talk in the Salford Advertiser, not to a Salford Councillor though.
I met with GMPTE in Manchester and brought them to Salford. I have yet to be convinced that Salford will be a major gainer out of this.
We may live in a city region but dont forget Salford is a major city in itself. When a outside commentator cant even define what the centre of Salford is, referring to it as the Arndale, I got quite concerned.
On a side note your comments do read quite close to that of the proponents of the charge, is Adam a psuedonym (bad spelling) for Leese, Smith ?
Martin,
Cripes, you would rightly take offence if I said you were a just a glorified spokesperson for Peel Holdings? Just because someone doesn’t share your views on this matter doesn’t mean they aren’t who they say they are.
Yet again - it’s one rule for the Lib Dems and another for everyone else when it comes to throwing mud around.
Tom.
Agree with your comment above Tom, although it’s a shame that some Labour figures are happy to go around claiming that opponents of the congestion charge are glorified spokespeople for Peel Holdings…
Tom,
I also totally agree with your comments and can confirm my name IS Adam and I am from Salford.
I guess Martin and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue and let he people of Salford decide for themselves.
Oh, he didn’t answer my question regarding the notice of motion to the council. Could someone please tell me what they were?
Adam.
I must watch my quips in future. True we may have to agree to disagree. I must say I have been called worse in my time in council, nothing increases the cyncism more than a foray into politics, even the more light hearted optimist can be tainted by the dark side.
Hi, the title of this thread is “Who forgot Irlam and Cadishead”. You all seem to have forgot that Irlam and Cadishead have major transport problems that are not being addressed by the TIF. The only mention is of station improvements. This will only make it more comfortable when we are waiting for overdue and cancelled trains (a regular occurrence). None of the proposals, as far as I can see will lessen the problem of overcrowding on the trains. The East Midlands express from Nottingham to Liverpool is the only train from Piccadilly that stops at Irlam. This used to have six overcrowded carriages now it has two! How will the TIF in Manchester influence a train service from the East Midlands. The trains only go to Manchester. They are no use at all for people who have to go to work in Salford (of which we are supposed to be a part). The roads out of Irlam towards Salford are at a standstill, and I am reliably informed that this is because the dual carriageway is used as a holding place to keep traffic off the M60. The solution to congestion on the A57 is not a congestion charge, it is simply changing the inside lane to a bus lane during rush hour. Two years ago one lane was closed for a week while works were carried out. During that week it took 5 minutes to travel the 3 miles to Peel Green instead of 30 minutes.
I don’t know anyone from Irlam or Cadishead that will be voting for congestion charges.
Pete